old belgian gun makers

Beckers G. To make purchases and use the full site services, register or login your account. The blue is rough but the action works. Collette Lopold outlawman7 - The reason for a lack of response here may be found in the post immediately above yours. Get this product now as it would not last, Contract - 5.56 x 45mm 62 Gr. In addition to Consignment Sale Information. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. Last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10, https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_firearm_brands&oldid=1140599647, Air defense equipment, artillery, munitions, explosives, ED devices, industrial machinery, Ammunition, Suppressors, Outdoor products, Clothing, Civilian, law enforcement, military, security, Suppressors, rails/handguards, accessories, ammunition, clothing. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers Home > Companies Gun & arms makers from Belgium country Czech Republic South Africa Israel Malaysia Netherlands Belgium Norway United Arab Emirates Finland Nigeria Ukraine Hungary Indonesia Lithuania Serbia Slovak Republic Croatia New Zealand Sweden Greece Japan Slovenia On the bottom of the barrel it has the proof mark like number 9 (E,L,G,) (no crown). Purchased by Val Forgett of Navy Arms in 1978. If you are considering buying a Belgian gun, look long and hard atits quality. firearms. Thank you for Barrels are not rifled- does this mean it must be a shotgun? To establish this rule, they constructed a proof house near the City of London. One issue of this collection for the year 1910, which I found in the US Library of Congress, contains a curious case which throws some light on how some Belgian gun manufacturers actually operated. individual armorers and inspectors used their own unique stamps in some The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. A complete list of suppliers of shotguns. Any maker's name on the rib between the barrels?Best,Gerry, 1902 a greener twobarrel it has hh on botten of barrel what do i have. One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. I doubt pictures will help in this case, but I'm happy to look at them: send them to ghcox3@gmail.com. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". #1 A buddy at work inherited a very nice customized Mauser from his dad. Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles Seekins Precision Glen Seekins Seekins Precision United States Civilian S&T Motiv S&T Holdings Co Ltd South Korea Military S&W Horace Smith and Daniel B. Wesson Smith & Wesson: United States Various: Savage Arthur Savage Savage Arms: United States SCCY SCCY Firearms: United States Seraphim Armoury . I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. Nowadays these firearms are mostly used for hunting or kept at home for self-defence. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. Hi, Jeremy. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 Serial Numbers. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. Rifles & Musket Information. Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. into which each separate book is dealing with a small portion of the whole, and that is New York: A. S. Barnes, 1961. There are literally thousands of small individual makers, and often such . Christophe Louis Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. Board Of The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Miscellaneous It could be almost anything: an English Greener, which would have Birmingham, England, proof marks, or it could be a double of dubious origin. Bernimolin 1870-1898. The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. to identify the manufacturer. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. 1860-1870. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. It's as useful in a duck blind as it is . or E.C. The Modern Shotgun. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. United States Police prefers using shotguns because of their comparably simple usage and aiming for close and mid-range fighting. Bischop Pierre Measuring the bore diameter and chamber Condition Grading Definitions For Antique Firearms, This website may not Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . St. Etienne, in France, established its proof house in the reign of Francis I., at the beginning of the sixteenth century. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106. I have got a 19th century belgian double barrel pin fire shoutgun with walnut stock(116cm). Proof is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). Smokeless powder proof of military rifles until 1903, thereafter indicates nitro proof for all types of arms. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Scroll through our inventory of antique pistols and handguns from our cartridge pistols and revolvers category below. interlaced, and surmounted by a crown. referred to more commonly as "Proof Marks", Colette Victor Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Quick Facts If the price seems too good to be true, it probably is. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. A forum community dedicated to Shotgun owners and enthusiasts including the Remington, Beretta, and Mossberg shotguns brands. Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Inspector's marks can not be used to establish date of manufacture; they were re-used over time and the significance of some has been lost. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. Designates rifled barrel. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. the 20th century. U.S.A.Most pistols exported from the United States are not proof marked in their country of origin. Collard Henri - Roux Jacques If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Chartier Hey I have a F. Dumoulin & Co. 12 gauge side by side with double hammers. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years. Would that appear at this location on the piece?What Im attempting to do, is get this pistol appraised; thus the research to discover all the markings. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Rifle: Included in this lot we have a Belgian Flobert Style Warnant . The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Hand Guns 3 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Baker, David J. JavaScript is disabled. time, therefore assisting in dating the arm. 3 vols. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Closset J.M. Muzzleloading, breech loading, accessories, Airborne weapon pod systems, ammunition, vehicle mounted weapon systems, Gas-piston-operated weapon systems, firearm accessories, drop-in triggers, patriotic artwork, bolt carriers, bolts, upper receivers, barrel nut heatsinks, E^2 (E-Squared) barrels, Handguns, shotguns, machine guns, battle rifles, Suppressors, optics, ammunition, clothing, Springfield, Massachusetts armory location, (Special Warfare Operations Research and Development), This page was last edited on 20 February 2023, at 21:10. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Smaller gauges progressively cost more, with 20-gauge guns generally bringing at least twice the price of a 12 gauge. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. Other than the diameter stamp, I don't see a 70mm stamp. Bernard Ernest Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. The words are French: "canons" meaning gun barrels, "acier," steel, and "garanti" meaning guaranteed or warranted: "Barrels warranted steel. The book "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. Dallas, Donald. Four barrel . But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. How does it open? Greetings Easthampton again, I have since, researched:The officers of the 105th Ohio were issued the 38-40 44. Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. A "Greener" double? CLEMENT, J. GWO, good condition. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of Listing of small arms appearing from 1800 to 1899. You can also browse other antique pistols for sale or additional categories as diverse as Colts, Winchesters, and antique long guns. JavaScript is disabled. The British Sporting Gun and Rifle: Pursuit of Perfection 1850-1900. (Six volumes by alphabetical order), Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1. John Browning's Auto-5 set the bar for semi-automatic shotguns. It was mandatory post-1924. Closset Louis Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. (most sales were in the 1930s). The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 1860-1870. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Serial Numbers. visiting our on-line listing of manufacturers identifying marks, Midway USA sells a CO2 kit to unload both flint and percussion guns.Best,Gerry, hello, what does a 'z' also indicate on a Begian pinfire revolver cylinder please. It has a gold trigger and serial number starts with an x. I'm very curious as to why there is an "FN" above the serial #. A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Members . I can send pictures of it. Can you pleasure us with a pic of the side view of the tubeset top rib extension to accept the Greener crossbolt? to share our findings by this means of communication. These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted in a series of publications, I've owned two Belgian side by sides and two Browning Superposed, so I guess I can say that I have some acquaintance withtwentieth centuryones, but unlike my posts on antique English shotguns I don't have an antique Belgian one at hand to describe. This will be an on going . It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. I have not fired it. Bertrand Antoine it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. source of Manufacturer Serial Numbers. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Thanks so much. Belgian Liege gunmakers country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. Thanks Hause. Andr M.J. The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. To my knowledge, there isn't a book out that covers European proof marks: If someone knows about such a book, please add a comment with that information. Marlin-Savage-Winchester This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. Any help would be appreciated. Bettonville - Fontaine Ancion Jacques & Cie so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Braekers Charles & Cie Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . I recently decided to clean it up. significance or purpose. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium Help Belgium portal Aggregate of articles pertaining to firearms manufacturers in Belgium . The Great Exhibition of 1851 in London did much to publicize Lefaucheuxs system. Charlier Ch. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Email: Info@hlebooks.com Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . Hi Gerard and everyone! Also on the chamber there are three marks, one which I have not been able to identify, but appears to be provisional proof? What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? I have not been able to locate an authoritative resource The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. If you can, send me a photo: ghcox3@gmail.com.Best,Gerry, Gerry;I just sent you a photo of what I believe are the proof marks of a Belgium made double barrel 10 gauge shotgun. Seen After investigation of proofmarks I realised it is a Belgium manufacured gun from Liege. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. Colard Louis - Counet Lonard BELGIAN MADE, 12 GAUGE, BOXLOCK EJECTOR, 32" BARRELS, CHOKES MODIFIED & FULL, 2-3/4", BROADWAY RIB, GOLD WASHED SINGLE SELECTIVE INERTIA TRIGGER, NON-AUTOMATIC SAFETY, PISTOL GRIP, .Click for more info Seller: Country Pursuits Area Code: 718 $3,895.00 ROYAL GUN, BELGIUM SXS 12GA, GI#: 102149842 Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2 The text is written in French AND English. Thank you Jerry. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Hand Guns 8 Rifles-Shotguns 2 . Do you have any information on them? These two, and sometimes the makers private mark, may be found on many old weapons. Berleur Guillaume Joseph Farrell on October 27, 2020: Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. Order this book online and pay it through Where did you find the Falla mark? Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. . Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. Bazin F.J. ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 No maker's name at all. The Liege proof house was established in 1672 and it is the oldest European proof house still in operation. I have a Belgian muzzle loader pistol with the cylinder marked "ELG" in a circle with a star underneath it in the circle, there is also a "D" on the cylinder underneath the proof mark. Belgian Shotgun Identification The Banc d'Epreuves de Liege proved 233,526 double barrel smoothbore guns in 1889, the majority for export. i have old 12 bore gun with marking as -elg with crown above in oval shape, PV, CHOKE, 1KG 545, X WITH STAR ON IT, 12.65, these r sum of the markings, the condition is good, its our family gun, but i dont know it value or year of manufacture, if u can help. Cowboy & Old Western History Items 2/3/2023 Bargain Basement 2/3/2023 Check our Services. The lack of chamber length probably means it was made before 1892.Is there a name on it? Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . I can't ID the 'RM', who was likely the barrel maker. A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. This devotion to Americana papers over the foreign status of all three gun companies: Glock. [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. Any ideas as to date range? Between 1847-1952 the stamp with the letter F-J C was used in the same purpose. Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. Information, NRA Maximum service load for shotguns having undergone smokeless proof. Most double shotguns represented here. Colleye Henri Joseph They are often found in combination with proof-marks, and still more frequently on unproved arms made in countries where no official proof was existent. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive Each new gun is presented in a best oak and leather case complete with canvas outer and a full complement of accessories. barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Ad Categories: Pre-1840. Ordinance and Proof Houses were established by law in almost every Mark for voluntary treble temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels, Mark for voluntary double temporary or provisional proof on unfinished barrels. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). Can you send me some, Ed? have a great day! These marks are the Belgian Lion rampant over the letters S.C.H. The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. It has punched on one side of barrel 17.2, on the other side punched JC, EL ,pinfire symbol, K and crown on its top, E LG little crown under them in oval.Please help me to get the closest identification for this nice firearm. In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. . Very helpfull once again. It's complete. BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. proof marks. are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. Again, thank you The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. Search. Does it reach the touch hole? Collings Hadelin The listed in alphabetical order. Bultot Jean Introduced to designate arms proved in conformity of German Proof Law of 1891. Bastin Frres This printed cases. Bernard Henri Eugne carefully bound by threads. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). typically do not have a caliber designation; symbols and codes are used I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. Bernard Alphonse Baltus - Wilmotte The fourth the crossed branches, with the letters S.E.E., and a cross in their angles. 1840-1860. arsenal marks, you will find other marks or stampings. Quite old. Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Comblain H. J. Thank y'all again! The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. acknowledge the testing - called "Proof Marks". Comblain - Dorther Hubert Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Until 1894, stamped in .02mm graduations, then in 0.1mm steps, Degree of choke, in this case 0.7mm constriction. Baron Emile OldGuns Newsletter . Modern pistols and revolvers are proved in their last stage of manufacture when complete with action and in firing order. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Brancquaert Louis IMPORTANT NOTE! Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. Due to the vast quantity of data to treat, the global work was parted . M Mecar (4 P) Pages in category "Firearm manufacturers of Belgium" The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. The second and third indicateit was proofed at Lige. The Lion Rampant over PV was applied to the Optional Supplementary Smokeless proof for shotguns in 1898. that we have found on this subject. There's no indication of gauge. Clment-Neumann For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Counet Philippe I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Unmarked barrel with Belgian proof mark, action currently . Austrian arms were marked with the double eagle, and later with the letters Wn 78; a variety of private marks of manufacturers are also in use. Thanks again for the help! Proof Marks or Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. Just as many muzzleloaders were converted to breechloadersthink of the Springfield trapdoor action or the British Snidermany pin-fires were converted to center-fire guns. Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. JavaScript is disabled. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Sorry for my delay in responding: I've been OOT and off-line for two weeks. Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Photos of the flats on the barrels and on the action would help a lot. Behr Jean jacques Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. I can't find any other mumbers on the gun other than the multiple proof markings that I will post later. Please - no questions about your old guns. Length of chamber over diameter of chamber. Comblain Hubert Joseph A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. Courard stream He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. Inspectors mark, normally these are kept secret. Project Upland. Bovy Thodore Joseph The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. (copy right L.R. this location now so you can return often. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P.